Interview by Dave Newman - April 2003

How did you become involved with writing for He-Man and the Masters of the Universe?

My agent phoned me and said Filmation was looking for writers for Fat Albert. I said "No way." First, I had never written a cartoon before (actually I had written a short cartoon once, but it was a long time before that and didn't really count). And I was certain I could never write the so-called black "dialect" that the Fat Albert gang spoke. My background was situation comedy and variety shows. But I ended up meeting with Arthur Nadel at Filmation and I wrote a freelance Fat Albert episode - which they liked and hired me for staff. I wrote 13 Fat Albert's and then the series was finished. Arthur came into my office and told me that next week we would start writing He-Man. I freaked because as much as I thought I could never write a Fat Albert script, I was POSITIVE I could never write He-Man. For one thing, the show was on for a couple of seasons and there was a history of the show that I had no idea about. I had never seen an episode of He-Man and the character descriptions seemed rather odd. I mean they had such weird names like "Man-At-Arms," etc. Well, nevertheless I started writing He-Man and ended up writing 4 of them, before I left Filmation and started writing for DIC Entertainment, which was in its beginning years.

Do you have any memories of ideas you had that inspired the stories you wrote?

Overall my memories are vague about what inspired my He-Man episodes. However I know that years before that I was staff writer for one of the versions of the Sid and Marty Krofft series Pufnstuf. I wrote an episode for Pufnstuf that had a story with an energy creature or (or some internal energy force, I don't remember exactly) that Pufnstuf and his friends (Witchiepoo, etc.) had to deal with (using cheap chroma key). So I thought it would be fun to reprise that element. The stories were completely different - just the Energy element was incorporated into "The Energy Beast." Also I liked volcanoes. So that's why I wrote "Monster on the Mountain." (In the future when I would work with Larry DiTillio on similar series, he always knew I would submit one storyline featuring a volcano!). Larry, I'm sure all will agree was a great He-Man writer and still sends me Christmas cards every year. Hi Larry!

I have no idea what inspired that rather odd plot of "The Shadow of Skeletor." "The Greatest Show on Eternia" was my last script for He Man, and I thought it would be fun to have a circus show arrive at Eternia, especially since the Orko character was a kid and could relate. So that's why I wrote that one.

Your first episode was "The Energy Beast." Was there a monster movie influence behind this episode?

Well it wasn't a monster movie but my episode of Pufnstuf that inspired that. I'm not sure what inspired my Pufnstuf episode. Probably some 1950's hokey monster movie I assume. But I'm not sure.

In this episode, the King proclaims the day "He-Man Day." Did you know that Tom Bradley the former mayor of Los Angeles declared April 28th 1987 as 'Masters of the Universe Day'? Does this surprise you, and do you think He-Man was that big back in the day?

I didn't know that Mayor Bradley declared a "He-Man Day" - but that is no big deal. Just about anyone can get a Mayoral Proclamation declared in Los Angeles. I think all you need to be is reasonably worthy and give a "donation" to the City Treasury to basically pay for the Proclamation. But yes, He-Man was very big - it was the only cartoon of its kind at the beginning. Then came the other toy-based (and financed) cartoon series.

There's a lot of the history of Eternia discovered in this episode such as the origin of the Energy Beast, the creation of Mount Eternia, and the appearance of the Spirit of the Ancients. Do you like to add to the mythology of a show when you write?

Well I remember that there was a problem with creating this Mount Eternia. I wanted the volcano, but when I looked at the series background drawings there was no volcano-like mountain near the palace. So I asked the background artists if there was any window in the throne room that wasn't seen on camera before. They found one for me and I wrote in the script to use that specific window to reveal the volcano. I remember the storyboard department was a bit dismayed that I'd stick a mountain into the Eternian landscape that was never there before. But Bob Forward and the (very talented) storyboard team were used to me being weird, so they went ahead and stuck it in. I have no idea how the Spirit of the Ancients came about, or if it was ever used again. If it was used in future episodes, that's nice!

Was Skeletor's Raven influenced by Edgar Allen Poe and his famous poem 'The Raven'?

Yes, the Raven was certainly influenced by (or should I say stolen from) Poe's 'The Raven.' I think Poe would have made a good writer at Filmation if he could figure out how to fill out a time card. (More about the infamous Filmation timecards later!)

Man-E-Faces played a prominent role in "The Shadow of Skeletor." Was the episode intended as a vehicle for this character?

I can't be specific about if this episode was to be a Man-E-Faces (SPEAKING OF A WEIRD CHARACTER NAME) vehicle. But we were occasionally "suggested" to use certain toy characters so I guess I may have been told to feature him in this one. I do know that I was at one or two meetings at Mattel where their future and new characters (and props/vehicles) were shown to us writers (under great security) with the obvious hope that we would be inspired to find stories to feature these new toys.

Was there any particular reason to take the episode into outer space?

Probably because like volcanoes I was interested in space travel. And another planet seemed like a good place to do something a little different with the He-Man characters.

The episode has a very good act break where it looks like Adam might have to turn into He-Man in front of everybody. Very rarely did anyone use this plot point to as great effect as that, did you see it as a challenge to come up with something as exciting as that?

To tell the truth I don't recall much about the creation or writing of this episode at all. But writing every episode of He-Man was a challenge for me. For one thing, I was really not a He-Man type of writer. My background was comedy - not the kind of fantastic adventures of He-Man. Also there was one big challenge about writing for Filmation. And that challenge was Arthur Nadel (he was in charge of the writers) who I have many fond memories of. Arthur Nadel would approve the stories but always would suggest adding something to the plot that would baffle me. But I'd go ahead and stick it in and find a way to make it work. Then I'd give Arthur the first draft and he'd want something else added so I'd add that. Finally by the final draft the script was totally too long so I'd have to take things out. To make the plot make any sense at all I had to remove things that were very much mine and leave things in that were very much Arthur. Or vice versa; I'd take things out that Arthur wanted in and keep my things in - whatever was necessary to make the story work while letting me take out those 10-15 extra pages. Then after I'd finally get the script back to the correct page length, Arthur might want just a "tiny" portion of his plot point put back in - which would make the script too long again. And then after Storyboard got finished with it, the script was once again too long so I'd have to butcher another 10 pages out of it. But the challenge was even with all these changes, I always liked the idea that I was still able to find a way to give the even the most convoluted (and outrageous/ridiculous) plots some sense of storyline. I actually looked forward when Arthur would tell me to add something that I felt was completely out of place - but find a way to make it "work." Did that answer the question?

Certainly did! What inspired you to mix the somewhat diverse worlds of Eternia and the circus in "The Greatest Show on Eternia" episode?

Arthur wanted me to write an episode that featured Orko - since I liked that character. Well I thought since Orko was really a kid (or kid-like) what would be more perfect than a circus coming to Eternia. I kept pushing the limits of what I hoped to get away with - and never thought I would get away with shooting Skeletor out of a cannon. The storyboard artists were once again "bemused" with me that I had the nerve to do that! As it turned out, instead of shooting Skeletor out of the cannon I think they had him riding a big firecracker. How humiliating for Skeletor and me!

I know there are some He-Man fans who think that bringing a circus to Eternia was awful and on one He-Man fan site at least one "fan" has said some pretty bad things about me because of that. He called me the worst writer on the series and he hated what I did to his beloved Skeletor. But I figured that basically, at least to me, the whole He-Man concept made little sense anyway. (I mean characters with names like "Man-At-Arms" seemed so outrageous that I never took the series seriously.) Even that one fan admitted that even within what he called my miserable writing for the circus episode he admitted it "really has me laughing at a couple of points, I must admit!" (I assume this same fan hated my episode of that sophisticated comedy "Three's Company.")

Also, if I may ramble on, the writer's assistants Pam and Joyce loved my scripts. I would always hear them laughing as they would retype my material into their humungous Radio Shack computers. To this day when I see Pam (who now works at DIC) she brings up the line that really broke her up. I don't recall the exact line, but it featured the word "traif" which means "non-kosher." Not sure which He-Man episode I stuck that word into but if you ever do an interview with Pam she has that line embedded in her brain matter.

Writers like Larry DiTillio were really into the He-Man concept and the whole world of fantastic adventure. All I know is I made Pam and Joyce laugh and Arthur Nadel smile - and that was good enough for me.

What fans need to know is that they are watching the results of a complicated behind the scenes process that leads to the resulting cartoon. Especially for He-Man there were budget restraints which limited the number of sets, characters and even actions we could use in an episode. (The Storyboard department put together a notebook of standard character movements that were already created for past He-Man episodes, and we were strongly encouraged to re-use those movements whenever possible in order to keep the episodes on budget. The cel department actually kept those previously inked-and-painted cells on shelves and would and turn them over to the camera operators to re-use them.) Then there were storylines which don't always come from the writers, but come from the results of Mattel's "subliminal suggestions" to include certain toy characters, vehicles etc. There were severe time restraints in writing the scripts, and finally notes from the production company which the writer may or may not agree with but must include somehow. In my case, I was a writer brought on Filmation's staff to write Fat Albert, who suddenly found myself writing He-Man, so I wrote my episodes in my own style. There was no way I could write like Larry DiTillio, one of the great He-Man writers. I did it my way. I suppose if I stayed with the series I would have turned it into a total comedy and it would have ended up being re-titled Hee Hee Man.

This episode is obviously very comical and appealing to children. I've seen episodes that you've written of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Beast Wars that had gags that the parents of children in the audience might get before their children do (movie references for instance). Do you have that goal in mind when you write to appeal to both children and their parents watching the show?

When writing comedy for kids shows, I would write what kids could understand - but wouldn't hesitate to put things in for their parents - so long as it didn't confuse the kids. Those "parents" lines were always secondary and if they went over the heads of the kids that was okay as long as it didn't confuse them or interfere with the storyline. Also, I always feel that it doesn't hurt for kids to see their parents laughing at a kid's favorite cartoon. But I never wrote in a way which ignores a child's world. I've seen too many scripts for kids where the writer puts in things that baffle a kid and interfere with their enjoyment of a story.

Was "Monster on the Mountain" based on old folk tales and local legends as well as the rumors and superstitions that arise out of them?

Nope. I read very little fiction, and my knowledge of myths and legends is pretty much nil. It was based on me liking volcanoes, and finding a way to fit the He-Man characters into it.

At the end of the episode, the Tingler reveals that his name is Herman. Is this a reference to Herman's Hermits?

Yes, that is why I chose that name. That is a perfect example of how I would use a joke that would appeal to adults and not confuse the kid. It didn't hurt to use the name Herman, and if the kids didn't get it, their parents would.

The villains in your episodes always had very good lines. Are villains easier to write for than heroes?

Yes, villains are always more fun to write for. When I was writing for Pufnstuf it was more fun to write for Voodoo and Witchiepoo and the other villains than the usually bland heroes.

Who were your favorite characters from the show?

Orko. I could do some comedy with him.

Did you get a chance to see the episodes you wrote? If so, did the end results match what you planned on paper and imagined in your mind?

I saw a few. Of course I was prepared for the limited animation so I didn't expect much so far as the execution. So I never expected great animation. But I was really shocked and disappointed on the really cheap way the circus tent collapsed in "The Greatest Show on Eternia." If you recall, it was done with a wide shot of the tent. The collapse was handled with dissolves of the tent collapsing. Really looked awful especially because of the importance to the plot of the tent collapse. But I couldn't blame anyone - they were probably WAY over budget already on that episode because of all the new backgrounds, props etc.

Were there any characters that you created or any mark that you were proud of making on the show?

I liked the circus episode because it ran counter to what the whole series was about.

Was there any episodes planned that didn't get past the drawing board?

Well, we would turn in many story ideas and not all were approved. But once they were written they were shot. There was no room in the Filmation budget for trashing a script that was paid for. We had some outside writers that Arthur would take a chance on and if their script was no good, then a staff writer would re-write it.

Have you had chance to see the new He-Man show? If so, what are your thoughts on it? Do you have any interest in being involved in it?

Is there a new He-Man show? I knew about the second non-Filmation one, which I didn't watch. But had no idea there is a new one. And no, I have no interest in writing for it. I am in a totally different and exciting part of media now - streaming video on the Internet. But hey, if they want to stream it on the net I'll do that!

Before I forget, everyone at Filmation had to fill out time cards. I was a writer who came from major television shows and the idea of filling out a time card was so bizarre. But it was a union house and they had to keep track of hours (especially the ink and paint department). Even Arthur Nadel would fill out a time card. Arthur was also a director and he would direct the live action segments of Fat Albert - and he filled in a time card and wrote "Directing" in the appropriate line on the card, to my amusement.

What are you working on at the moment? Where can people find out more about your work?

I am President of a company that is involved with streaming video on the net. It is a very exciting business because of what it can do for the creative community. No more network video presidents that must approve your stories. We feature all types of streaming media but focus on WindowsMedia9 because it offers the most incredible video on the net. Go to www.123streamingplanet.com or www.rowby.com and become a member of the Rowby Fan Club of which I am President. New streaming videos will be added soon including a live puppet show.

Many thanks to Rowby for taking the time out to answer all these questions - make sure to visit his site soon!